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Annie
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Joined: 02 May 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17583 |
![]() Topic: Some Welcome Signs of Life From Private SectorPosted: 26 July 2010 at 11:36am |
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Some
Welcome Signs of Life From Private Sector
Michael Barone Grass somehow manages to grow up through small cracks in the sidewalk. Similarly, the American private sector somehow seems to be exerting itself despite the vast expansion of government by the Barack Obama administration and congressional Democrats. Case in point: the announcement last week by four oil companies -- Chevron, ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil and Shell -- that they are setting up a $1 billion joint venture to design, build and operate a rapid-response system to contain offshore oil spills as deep as and deeper than BP's Deepwater Horizon disaster. Their goal is a system that can start mobilizing within 24 hours of an oil spill. They hope to have it up and running within 18 months. I suppose one might ask why oil companies didn't do this before. But it seems a vivid contrast with the apparently hapless performance of the Mineral Management Service, recently renamed the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Regulation and Enforcement, which seems to have sat on out-of-date response plans for years and which was not able to call in equipment and personnel to respond to the April 20 BP spill for weeks or months. Journalists tend to assume that effective regulation of potentially hazardous products can come only from government. But industry-generated organizations can provide it, as well. Consider Underwriters Laboratories, founded in 1894, whose UL stickers come attached to regulator products. Or the Society of Automotive Engineers, founded in 1905, which sets standards for the automobile and other industries. Government hasn't had to step in because UL and SAE work well without them. Federal regulators couldn't plug the BP well. The oil companies' joint venture promises to be able to do so. Another case in point, which is different and more diffuse: the "capital strike" I wrote about two weeks ago. In the wake of the uncertainty raised by the Obama Democrats' huge increase in regulations and pending and current increases in taxes, businesses are sitting on cash and not hiring, banks are buying Treasury bonds and not lending, investors are not investing and consumers aren't buying. The economy languishes. The response here is coming from congressional Democrats alarmed by the prospect, anticipated with relish for years now by so many of their colleagues, of the rise in taxes on high earners next year as the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts expire. "Whoa!" is the response from Sens. Kent Conrad, Evan Bayh and Ben Nelson. Maybe we shouldn't raise taxes when the economy is languishing. They now say they won't back such an increase. In this they are following in the footsteps of John Maynard Keynes, who never would have approved tax increases in a lagging economy. And of White House Council of Economics Advisors Chairman Christina Romer, who -- with her husband David Romer, also a respected academic economist -- surveyed tax changes since World War II and concluded: "Tax increases are highly contractionary. The effects are strongly significant, highly robust and much larger than those using broader measures of tax changes." Democrats have some cause to complain that George W. Bush and congressional Republicans left them with a hot potato when, by using the reconciliation process to avoid a Senate filibuster, they made their now long-ago tax cuts expire after this year. The Democratic plan has been to continue the tax cuts on people with incomes under $250,000 and to allow cuts above that benchmark to expire. That way they could depict Republicans as aiders and abettors of the greedy rich. But the defection of Conrad, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, and at least two Democratic colleagues raises the possibility that even in a lame duck session after the November election, Senate Democrats won't be able to get 60 votes for their plan. In that case, they will presumably have to compromise with at least some Republicans to preserve popular Bush tax features like the child care tax credit and the 10 percent low income bracket. Otherwise, taxes will go up on even middle- and low-income people just at a time when Keynesian economists say they shouldn't. This is not a bind the Democrats expected to be in. Two lessons seem apparent here. One is that private firms can do things government regulators can't do. The other is that if you choke the golden goose enough, it stops producing eggs -- and you have to get your hands off its neck. Grass grows up in the smallest cracks. http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelBarone/2010/07/26/some_welcome_signs_of_life_from_private_sector |
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“If you don’t know where you are going, any road will get you there.”
― Lewis Carroll |
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 11:40am |
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Looks like another Bash only Obama thread.......Let's all jump on board, LOL...Anyway, I certainly agree with Keynes and tax increases during a struggling economic time. That would be bad.....Glad to see some Democrats understand that.
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boomerjake
Big League
Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4345 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 11:49am |
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The private sector creates jobs. Not the government. And that’s the fallacy an economic illiterate like you don’t understand. Government spending money does nothing to ease the concerns of those who consider the risks and expend capital for spurring economic activity. |
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 11:53am |
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Originally posted by boomerjake I understand more about the economy/private sector jobs/ than you do. But you go ahead and give me a lecture...LOL. Tell me what kind of business you run, just for starters....
The private sector creates jobs. Not the government. And that’s the fallacy an economic illiterate like you don’t understand. Government spending money does nothing to ease the concerns of those who consider the risks and expend capital for spurring economic activity. |
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boomerjake
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Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4345 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 12:00pm |
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Originally posted by dockbumper5
Originally posted by boomerjake I understand more about the economy/private sector jobs/ than you do. But you go ahead and give me a lecture...LOL. Tell me what kind of business you run, just for starters....The private sector creates jobs. Not the government. And that’s the fallacy an economic illiterate like you don’t understand. Government spending money does nothing to ease the concerns of those who consider the risks and expend capital for spurring economic activity. LOL…Well what you suggest isn’t working out real well in today’s world, now is it? |
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 12:02pm |
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Originally posted by boomerjake
Originally posted by dockbumper5 LOL, what kind of business do you run? Nothing specific, just give a general description.........Go ahead..
Originally posted by boomerjake
The private sector creates jobs. Not the government. And that’s the fallacy an economic illiterate like you don’t understand. Government spending money does nothing to ease the concerns of those who consider the risks and expend capital for spurring economic activity. LOL…Well what you suggest isn’t working out real well in today’s world, now is it? |
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boomerjake
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Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4345 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 12:13pm |
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Originally posted by dockbumper5 Originally posted by boomerjake
Originally posted by dockbumper5
Originally posted by boomerjake LOL, what kind of business do you run? Nothing specific, just give a general description.........Go ahead..The private sector creates jobs. Not the government. And that’s the fallacy an economic illiterate like you don’t understand. Government spending money does nothing to ease the concerns of those who consider the risks and expend capital for spurring economic activity. LOL…Well what you suggest isn’t working out real well in today’s world, now is it? You go around on the forum childishly ignoring other posters questions and then expect others to give you the respect you fail to give in return. Good luck with that! |
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 12:14pm |
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That is the answer I expected.....LOL
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Annie
Ultimate
Joined: 02 May 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17583 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:25pm |
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I am waiting for the racist hammer to drop again. If one doesn't care for an Obama policy, then they are racist or a basher or both and if one agrees with anything Bush did then they are a tainted partisan.
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“If you don’t know where you are going, any road will get you there.”
― Lewis Carroll |
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soonercntry1
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Joined: 10 January 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4717 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:25pm |
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dock, are you implying that someone in ownership of a business, or businesses, is always going to have a better understanding of policies and how they shape economics vs. anyone not in ownership?
Just curious. If so, wouldn't that mean that all owners would share the same views? |
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soonercntry1
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Joined: 10 January 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4717 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:26pm |
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I mean, since all business owners are obviously better at reason and logic than non-owners..... those brilliant minds certainly must align and agree on policies and how they impact the direction of our economic growth. Right?
Edited by soonercntry1 - 26 July 2010 at 1:29pm |
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:29pm |
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Originally posted by Annie Certainly not racist in my views....all about what political party one belongs to...
I am waiting for the racist hammer to drop again. If one doesn't care for an Obama policy, then they are racist or a basher or both and if one agrees with anything Bush did then they are a tainted partisan. |
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:30pm |
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Originally posted by soonercntry1 No, I am implying that jake is a fake. Nothing more, nothing less.....
dock, are you implying that someone in ownership of a business, or businesses, is always going to have a better understanding of policies and how they shape economics vs. anyone not in ownership? Just curious. If so, wouldn't that mean that all owners would share the same views? |
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soonercntry1
Big League
Joined: 10 January 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4717 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:31pm |
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Originally posted by dockbumper5
Certainly not racist in my views....all about what political party one belongs to... What if someone who doesn't belong to, or financially support a political party, doesn't agree with your logic? How does you broad brush apply to them if they tend to agree with one of those parties more often than the other? |
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:32pm |
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Originally posted by soonercntry1 Wrong. Just like all walks of life, business owners would probably have differing opinions on policies and impact on economic growth.
I mean, since all business owners are obviously better at reason and logic than non-owners..... those brilliant minds certainly must align and agree on policies and how they impact the direction of our economic growth. Right? |
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:35pm |
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Originally posted by soonercntry1 That would be fine with me. If I see partisanship, I point it out. You, or anybody else, are welcome to offer opinions....
Originally posted by dockbumper5 Certainly not racist in my views....all about what political party one belongs to... What if someone who doesn't belong to, or financially support a political party, doesn't agree with your logic? How does you broad brush apply to them if they tend to agree with one of those parties more often than the other? |
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soonercntry1
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Joined: 10 January 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4717 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:37pm |
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I sort of agree with Jake's initial premise, but not completely. I agree with his sentiment that private sector job growth is good for us. The private sector and the government can both create jobs, which is where I disagree. HOWEVER, only the private sector job creation can lead to meaningful economic growth.... which is what I'd imagine Boomerjake was saying anyhow.
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dockbumper5
Big Daddy
Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2592 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:42pm |
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Originally posted by soonercntry1 I agree with much of what you say. I believe there is a place and time for govt to inject economic stimulus. Obama's stimulus was a joke, because little of it was for immediate stimulus. I was against it, I supported TARP. Anything else?
I sort of agree with Jake's initial premise, but not completely. I agree with his sentiment that private sector job growth is good for us. The private sector and the government can both create jobs, which is where I disagree. HOWEVER, only the private sector job creation can lead to meaningful economic growth.... which is what I'd imagine Boomerjake was saying anyhow. |
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soonercntry1
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Joined: 10 January 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4717 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:52pm |
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I don't know how I feel about gov't stimulus because I've never seen it work in my short lifetime (31 years). TARP was a joke, in my opinion. Bush was a failure with his fiscal policy.
I'm open to putting a foot in my mouth someday, but today side on letting businesses fail and let someone else rise up to take their place. There is no such thing as "Too big to fail". Sometimes a country needs to go through significant hardship to purge their economy of the fat that will slow long term growth. This also humbles a generation to be more open to working hard for what they need, vs. barely putting any effort into work and living fat and happy off of the hard work of their previous generation(s). In my opinion, more ingenuity comes from hard times than from peak times of wealth (which is when complacency and entitlement wreaks havoc). So I probably side against your opinion that our bumbling idiots in D.C. should ever inject economic stimulus. |
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bill callahan
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Joined: 21 April 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 10237 |
![]() Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:53pm |
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Originally posted by dockbumper5
Originally posted by soonercntry1 I agree with much of what you say. I believe there is a place and time for govt to inject economic stimulus. Obama's stimulus was a joke, because little of it was for immediate stimulus. I was against it, I supported TARP. Anything else?I sort of agree with Jake's initial premise, but not completely. I agree with his sentiment that private sector job growth is good for us. The private sector and the government can both create jobs, which is where I disagree. HOWEVER, only the private sector job creation can lead to meaningful economic growth.... which is what I'd imagine Boomerjake was saying anyhow. being the keynes fan that you are, what do you think our economy and unemployment rate would look like if all fed taxes had been cut to zero for 18mos? if we are going to run a deficit, instead of playing politics and letting the gov't write decide who gets checks, why not every fed tax payer?
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Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself...
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