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Topic: Some Welcome Signs of Life From Private Sector
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soonercntry1 Big League Joined: 10 January 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4697	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:54pm
	double post.... ugh Edited by soonercntry1 - 26 July 2010 at 1:55pm
	Buy American and support the U.S. Economy..... Buy Toyota!
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Annie Ultimate Joined: 02 May 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17542	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:56pm
	*Originally posted by soonercntry1* I sort of agree with Jake's initial premise, but not completely. I agree with his sentiment that private sector job growth is good for us. The private sector and the government can both create jobs, which is where I disagree. HOWEVER, only the private sector job creation can lead to meaningful economic growth.... which is what I'd imagine Boomerjake was saying anyhow. Also, the private sector has to pay for the government job as well as its own jobs. The government either raises taxes, inflates or borrows money to pay for the jobs they supposedly create. Many government jobs created for the sole purpose of making certain people have jobs are ones that are unnecessary. In down times, the private sector jobs created are needed. In times like these, the private sector thins down and the government sector bloats, which drains more from the private sector. Priming the government pump only drains the private sector.
	“If you don’t know where you are going, any road will get you there.” ― Lewis Carroll
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dockbumper5 Big Daddy Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2510	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 1:58pm
	Originally posted by soonercntry1 I don't know how I feel about gov't stimulus because I've never seen it work in my short lifetime (31 years). TARP was a joke, in my opinion. Bush was a failure with his fiscal policy. I'm open to putting a foot in my mouth someday, but today side on letting businesses fail and let someone else rise up to take their place. There is no such thing as "Too big to fail". Sometimes a country needs to go through significant hardship to purge their economy of the fat that will slow long term growth. This also humbles a generation to be more open to working hard for what they need, vs. barely putting any effort into work and living fat and happy off of the hard work of their previous generation(s). In my opinion, more ingenuity comes from hard times than from peak times of wealth (which is when complacency and entitlement wreaks havoc). So I probably side against your opinion that our bumbling idiots in D.C. should ever inject economic stimulus. Tax cuts are a form of govt stimulus, I believe they work. Cash for Clunkers is a textbook example of how govt stimulus works............It made tight fisted consumers spend money.
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dockbumper5 Big Daddy Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2510	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:02pm
	*Originally posted by bill callahan* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by soonercntry1* I sort of agree with Jake's initial premise, but not completely. I agree with his sentiment that private sector job growth is good for us. The private sector and the government can both create jobs, which is where I disagree. HOWEVER, only the private sector job creation can lead to meaningful economic growth.... which is what I'd imagine Boomerjake was saying anyhow. I agree with much of what you say. I believe there is a place and time for govt to inject economic stimulus. Obama's stimulus was a joke, because little of it was for immediate stimulus. I was against it, I supported TARP. Anything else? being the keynes fan that you are, what do you think our economy and unemployment rate would look like if all fed taxes had been cut to zero for 18mos? if we are going to run a deficit, instead of playing politics and letting the gov't write decide who gets checks, why not every fed tax payer? I am all for it....let's get it on...
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Annie Ultimate Joined: 02 May 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17542	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:16pm
	Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money.
	“If you don’t know where you are going, any road will get you there.” ― Lewis Carroll
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dockbumper5 Big Daddy Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2510	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:19pm
	*Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked.
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boomerjake Big League Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4303	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:22pm
	*Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It only took future sales and transferred them to the present, and inefficiently at that. There has been several studies to substantiate that.
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dockbumper5 Big Daddy Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2510	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:25pm
	*Originally posted by boomerjake* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It only took future sales and transferred them to the present, and inefficiently at that. There has been several studies to substantiate that. Stimulus is designed to make consumers NOW....Like you stated, it did just that.
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bill callahan Ultimate Joined: 21 April 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 10237	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:25pm
	samething is happening right now in the housing market with the end of the credits
	Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself...
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Lebowski Big League Joined: 21 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4793	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:28pm
	*Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It also put junk yards out of business. I have an 84 Bronco II, I get parts out of junkyards around OKC. Since CFC, I can't parts parts worth crap because all of the cars that would have been made use of were destroyed. So people like me, who pay cash for old cars and drive them instead of living beyond my means by driving cars that I have to finance for 5 years, were hurt drastically. Those of us that did not contribute at all to the problem, were hurt by those that did, so that they could continue to screw the economy up even more.
	I just want my rug back, man. “The best exercise for the human heart is to bend down and pick someone up” -Tim Russert 1950-2008
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dockbumper5 Big Daddy Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2510	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:31pm
	*Originally posted by bill callahan* samething is happening right now in the housing market with the end of the credits I thought they were extended to Sept....
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dockbumper5 Big Daddy Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2510	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:32pm
	*Originally posted by Lebowski* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It also put junk yards out of business. I have an 84 Bronco II, I get parts out of junkyards around OKC. Since CFC, I can't parts parts worth crap because all of the cars that would have been made use of were destroyed. So people like me, who pay cash for old cars and drive them instead of living beyond my means by driving cars that I have to finance for 5 years, were hurt drastically. Those of us that did not contribute at all to the problem, were hurt by those that did, so that they could continue to screw the economy up even more. I still see junk yards that are in business today.....
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bill callahan Ultimate Joined: 21 April 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 10237	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:33pm
	*Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by bill callahan* samething is happening right now in the housing market with the end of the credits I thought they were extended to Sept.... they are having a problem with the closings. so only the closing extention was pushed to sept, not the actual credit for all buyers who do not have a signed contract.
	Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself...
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chicagoillini Ultimate Joined: 04 January 2006 Location: Iceland Online Status: Offline Posts: 13000	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:36pm
	*Originally posted by bill callahan* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by bill callahan* samething is happening right now in the housing market with the end of the credits I thought they were extended to Sept.... they are having a problem with the closings. so only the closing extention was pushed to sept, not the actual credit for all buyers who do not have a signed contract. This extension applies only to home buyers who met that first April 30 deadline. As the closing process can easily take more than 60 days, Congress approved an extension of the closing deadline to September 30. These two additional months will be helpful for those buyers whose closing has been delayed for any reason. Unfortunately, this extension does not allow for new home purchases to qualify for the tax credit. I am building a house right now and then extention will likely buy my privacy fence.
	MEGA DITTOS!!!!!!!
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Annie Ultimate Joined: 02 May 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17542	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:37pm
	*Originally posted by Lebowski* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It also put junk yards out of business. I have an 84 Bronco II, I get parts out of junkyards around OKC. Since CFC, I can't parts parts worth crap because all of the cars that would have been made use of were destroyed. So people like me, who pay cash for old cars and drive them instead of living beyond my means by driving cars that I have to finance for 5 years, were hurt drastically. Those of us that did not contribute at all to the problem, were hurt by those that did, so that they could continue to screw the economy up even more. I remember you speaking of that before. It was part of the 'unintended consequences' of a poorly thought through project. They failed to think of all those people who would be negatively impacted as well as the actual cost per car to support the plan.
	“If you don’t know where you are going, any road will get you there.” ― Lewis Carroll
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dockbumper5 Big Daddy Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2510	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:38pm
	*Originally posted by bill callahan* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by bill callahan* samething is happening right now in the housing market with the end of the credits I thought they were extended to Sept.... they are having a problem with the closings. so only the closing extention was pushed to sept, not the actual credit for all buyers who do not have a signed contract. OK.
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boomerjake Big League Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4303	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:38pm
	*Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by boomerjake* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It only took future sales and transferred them to the present, and inefficiently at that. There has been several studies to substantiate that. Stimulus is designed to make consumers NOW....Like you stated, it did just that. No stimulus is designed to stimulate the economy with the goal of long-term growth. This only took the potential for future growth and applied it to the present. And again, at a very inefficient and costly price. Some seem to fall for any gimmick that comes along.
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dockbumper5 Big Daddy Joined: 06 January 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2510	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:39pm
	*Originally posted by Annie* *Originally posted by Lebowski* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It also put junk yards out of business. I have an 84 Bronco II, I get parts out of junkyards around OKC. Since CFC, I can't parts parts worth crap because all of the cars that would have been made use of were destroyed. So people like me, who pay cash for old cars and drive them instead of living beyond my means by driving cars that I have to finance for 5 years, were hurt drastically. Those of us that did not contribute at all to the problem, were hurt by those that did, so that they could continue to screw the economy up even more. I remember you speaking of that before. It was part of the 'unintended consequences' of a poorly thought through project. They failed to think of all those people who would be negatively impacted as well as the actual cost per car to support the plan. It did what is was designed to do.......
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Lebowski Big League Joined: 21 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4793	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:41pm
	*Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* *Originally posted by Lebowski* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It also put junk yards out of business. I have an 84 Bronco II, I get parts out of junkyards around OKC. Since CFC, I can't parts parts worth crap because all of the cars that would have been made use of were destroyed. So people like me, who pay cash for old cars and drive them instead of living beyond my means by driving cars that I have to finance for 5 years, were hurt drastically. Those of us that did not contribute at all to the problem, were hurt by those that did, so that they could continue to screw the economy up even more. I remember you speaking of that before. It was part of the 'unintended consequences' of a poorly thought through project. They failed to think of all those people who would be negatively impacted as well as the actual cost per car to support the plan. It did what is was designed to do....... Then it was a poorly designed, POS plan. And yes, I still see junkyards in business also, but not as many as there used to be.
	I just want my rug back, man. “The best exercise for the human heart is to bend down and pick someone up” -Tim Russert 1950-2008
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boomerjake Big League Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4303	Posted: 26 July 2010 at 2:42pm
	*Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* *Originally posted by Lebowski* *Originally posted by dockbumper5* *Originally posted by Annie* Tax payers subsidized those who opted to get cars at an exorbitant price. True, people did go to the show rooms. True, car manufacturers did cut their inventory. Unfortunately, the stream of customers tailed off after the program closed. The government had a horrid design for information flow and underestimated the number of people needed to process the claims. What did they do? The dealers have to front the money and wait far too long to get their money. You can nit pick all you want, CFC certainly had it's problems but it worked. It brought tight fisted consumers into car dealers and they spent money. Sorry Annie, it worked. It also put junk yards out of business. I have an 84 Bronco II, I get parts out of junkyards around OKC. Since CFC, I can't parts parts worth crap because all of the cars that would have been made use of were destroyed. So people like me, who pay cash for old cars and drive them instead of living beyond my means by driving cars that I have to finance for 5 years, were hurt drastically. Those of us that did not contribute at all to the problem, were hurt by those that did, so that they could continue to screw the economy up even more. I remember you speaking of that before. It was part of the 'unintended consequences' of a poorly thought through project. They failed to think of all those people who would be negatively impacted as well as the actual cost per car to support the plan. It did what is was designed to do....... No telling how many of these you have either
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